| Interpret the following statement: “The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one.” – Wilhelm Stekel Do you agree with Stekel? Defend your position with evidence. |
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77 Comments
Logan L.
11/3/2014 03:21:40 am
I agree and disagree with the following quote. I think Wilhelm Stekel has a very good point saying that a mature man is he who wants to live humbly for a cause because too often people get overwhelmed with emotion and perform extreme acts to advance their cause, even dying if necessary. Not only does this unstable emotional state encourage violence, but it also can make one lose sight of one's original goal and start acting simply off of greed to be recognized and important. However, there are many times when "living humbly" in hopes of seeing a cause reap its rewards is simply not an option. An example of this is how during WWII, millions of Jews were murdered in the events of the Holocaust. The Jews did not resist the Nazis, and consequently were killed. Not until the allied powers rallied against Hitler and the axis nations were the Jews saved from the Hell on earth they were forced to endure. In this case, many soldiers nobly layed down their lives for a cause, and as a result the Jews were freed from the Nazi's grip. I think it would be hard to argue that all the soldiers who died in WWII were immature men, which proves that Stekel's quote is only partially true. Nonetheless, in most circumstances where peaceful means of instituting change are prevalent, the mature man would most definitely be the one who chooses to live and humbly advocate for a cause instead of uneccessarily dying for one.
Riley N
11/4/2014 04:59:35 am
You bring up a good point on how mature men don't "unnecessarily" die for a cause. But the problem arises they may deem the issue a necessary act to die over. And that's where maturity and immaturity can be blurred as in their mind they are mature but as a third person looking in we can see them as immature
Andrew Cuomo
11/4/2014 05:06:44 am
You had very good points and your examples could not have been better. WWII was probably one of the best examples you could have used.
Ava M
11/4/2014 08:42:48 am
Very insightful, I agree with what you have to say. Great reference to history.
Zoe O.
11/4/2014 11:36:04 am
Logan, I agree with you when you say that people act off of greed to be recognized. Humble people are modest, and would do something to help people other than just themselves. You used good examples to explain the quote, though I disagree that the soldiers are immature. They did what they had to do to please Hitler and their families at home, who did not like the Jews. Other than that, wonderfully written response!
Jay V.
11/5/2014 07:09:13 am
Though your response is thoughtful and insightful, I do not agree with your stance. There is a big difference between WANTING to die for a cause and being WILLING to die for a cause. Wanting to die for a cause implies that one is ready to throw his life away just to receive fame and distinction, while being willing to die for a cause means that one believes so strongly In a cause that it takes priority over his own life; however, he is not forsaking his life for name or recognition, but because it is necessary for the cause. Many of the Allies laid down their lives because they believed that the cause was greater than them – they didn't want to, but they knew they had to and were willing to do so.
Ashley L
11/5/2014 09:04:18 am
When I first read the quote, I automatically agreed with it. We assume that you must be more mature if you have the ability to detach your ego from the situation. But after reading your response, I realized how it can go both ways. Mentioning the events of the Holocaust really supports your point. None of the men who risked their lives in WWII can be considered immature if they were willing to pay the ultimate price. They nobly defended the Jews and helped end their suffering. If they could look back on their actions today, they wouldn't be modest about it, they would be proud.
Sean Kaufman
11/5/2014 09:07:06 am
Logan makes a very convincing argument. He states an unbiased point of view by staying and pointing out key facts on both sides. He makes his own voice heard, and that is amazing. Coming up with these ideas helped me see that there is more to the question then a black and white viewpoint. I hope to see more blogs that are just like this.
Kelly M.
11/5/2014 10:39:06 am
Logan, the example that you used in your blog response was insightful. I thoroughly enjoyed reading and responding to your answer. Great job!
Kayla A
11/6/2014 11:48:30 am
Logan, you used good examples in your response. I really enjoyed it. I never looked at it from both sides until I read your response. Good Job!
Manny A
11/6/2014 08:42:43 am
Logan, I agree with what you said about WWII. Some people may say that Stekel's quote may not be all that accurate. Keep up the great work!!
Christopher C.
11/6/2014 09:31:43 am
Very good points. Your usage of effective examples was great. I also thought your reference to WWII was the best point.
Sean Kaufman
11/3/2014 01:35:49 pm
The given quote provides useful insight on the real world. The immature men are like knights of the middle ages, seeking fame and glory. When we were young and extremely immature, we dreamed of being heroic “knights in shining armor”, being the one thing that everyone wants to be. That is what the knights are. They do not know what their purpose in life is, and seek a cause to fill in the void of why they were brought upon this world. One such man, Alexander the Great, who tried to take over the world in the name of superiority, even went so far as to name a city after his horse. Mature men are men that realized why they were brought into the world. In Buddhism, becoming enlightened is becoming mature. They realized why they exist, and learn the truths of the world, and calmly accept what they became. The Buddha, Siddhartha, had all of the riches in the world from his father, but realized material objects are not a necessity for a happy life. He did not seek after fame and fortune, and instead led a humble life. Accepting what lies ahead of him is the mark of a mature man, not a need to join a cause and die nobly.
Samantha Soracco
11/4/2014 02:39:10 am
I agree with this response and I liked that you used the example of warriors. It's a good example of what each type of person seeks in life and why it is mature or not.
Sviatoslav K.
11/4/2014 10:20:24 am
I agree with what you are stating due to the fact that your response reminds me of a chess game. In which, the "knights in shining armor" are the immature pawns, who usually die off first in the game. Whereas all the other pieces are the ones who try to survive and keep the king alive, until the end.
Ethan LaFrance
11/6/2014 01:15:27 am
Sean- I agree almost entirely with your response. I love how you reform the traditional definitions of masculinity not to be something powerful and domineering, but to acceptance. If one can take what comes to them and keep on keeping on, they are surely maturer than any warrior. I also enjoy your relevant application of Buddhism. Gautama Buddha once said "Greater than he who conquers 1000 men on the battlefield, is he who conquers himself."
Brianna Y
11/6/2014 09:20:11 am
Sean, I do agree with your statement above. People do want to be a knight and shining armor so they can create some purpose to their lives. Great examples to back up your claim, it was a lovely read :)
Logan L.
11/6/2014 10:57:14 am
I agree with your opinion, Sean. I found your simile comparing young people to "knights in shining armor" a great illustration of man's desire to be heroic and recognized.
Samantha Soracco
11/4/2014 02:36:33 am
This quote shows the differences of the needs and wants of a developed and undeveloped person. A person who has little experience and is young is more likely to make a stupid decision and would rather pass in order to benefit another. While a well developed person who has a wise mind would make the decision to live quietly and un dramatically for a cause. I don't agree with the author because although maturity has to be built upon for a long time in order to be become a mature person, many teenagers today would make the decision to fight for a cause. A big problem with today's teenagers is that many of them are bullied or bully others. This causes many to feel lonely and moody but also it causes many to stand up for themselves and others making teens more mature even if they aren't yet. Yes, a mature man will be more humble to live for a cause but immature men can do that too. Whatever the cause is for a man to be humble or dramatic in dying or living, it can happen with either types of people. An immature person does not necessarily have to be humble or risky. A teenager can easily make a humble decision as well as a humble person could. Many people want a new car or money but whatever type of person it is can make a decision humbly or risky. The point is that mature and immature people will make the right decision in a situation whether it causes death or not. Take any person, any age, any gender. Put that person in a life or death situation and expect that any person will try whatever it is to survive. There should not be stereo types on people. Saying that a teenager will choose to die while an adult will choose to live is impossible to determine as true.
Erin Satkowski
11/5/2014 12:36:51 pm
I agree with your interpretation of this quote regarding the definition of a mature and immature man as well as your opinion of the author. This is an interesting perspective and has given me a new take on this quote!
Hailey H
11/6/2014 08:26:38 am
I like your idea of the quote being the difference between developed and undeveloped people. Very creative. I also like how you tied in the example of teenagers today being bullied and how that can affect their decisions. Very true.
Sviatoslav K.
11/4/2014 04:50:44 am
Comment deleted
Connie C
11/6/2014 11:01:32 am
This is a wonderful response. I agree with the example too; Supernatural is a nice example of mature people. As you know, Sam and Dean are always dying in almost every season. However, the other would always try to bring the dead one back. They refuse to let each other die and they get through every day, fighting monsters.
Andy S
11/6/2014 11:51:51 am
I agree with you Sviatoslav. Very good response.
Riley N
11/4/2014 04:52:34 am
Stekel definitely was mistaken in his theory. The mark of a mature man is definitely not someone looking to die for his cause, but it is a mark that they are not afraid to die for what they believe in. This is because when all the real world is stripped away our beliefs is all we have. It takes maturity to know that these beliefs are what we have even in the worst of situations. Also death is nothing to be afraid of. It's a stage in life that everyone will face in due time. It's nothing to dread but a time to reflect on what the person has done in their lifetime to make another's life better and truly special.
Thomas Westgate
11/5/2014 12:23:43 pm
You brought up a good point about our beliefs. The material things in the world can disappear but our beliefs will not. That is why they are so valuable and worth dying for. However, there are also cases where people die unnecessarily in the hopes of achieving honor. An example is when Lieutenant Dan told Forrest Gump to leave him to die in battle just as his ancestors had. This would in no way help to win the war and was purely to make Lieutenant Dan be remembered as a hero.
Mrs. Elbakry
11/6/2014 03:22:38 am
What an awesome example, Tom!
Jacob E
11/6/2014 02:54:36 am
Riley, my boy, good stuff!! Though the response was a little bit wordy, the content was so insightful that I ignored it. I thought that it was extremely bold how you called out Stekel and I really respect that. A few missing commas are the only complaints I have about this beautiful piece of blogging.
Tom D
11/6/2014 10:34:52 am
I completely agree with you. The mark of a mature man is who is not afraid to die for what he believes in. you really hit the nail on the head.
Andrew Cuomo
11/4/2014 05:04:58 am
I do agree with Stekel's quote. The immature man would want to be remembered for anything. So he goes and tries to do different things to become remembered. He won't care if it is good or bad, or if he lives or dies, he just wants whatever cause he was working for fixed. But a mature man will stop and think about the problem, and find the best way to do it, unlike the immature man. The mature man will make sure that the cause is fixed in the best way for him and also make sure that whatever is being fixed is fixed in the best way. He will make sure that he will live and not hurt himself. The immature man will just go and fix the problem without thinking, but the mature man will take time to fix the problem and find the best way to do it.
Heather H.
11/6/2014 10:59:16 am
Although I do not fully agree with this statement, the points provided caused me to consider your position. They were clear and made strong arguments. I liked how you said that the immature man "goes and tries to do different things to become remembered." This was relatable in the sense that many people our age try many things before realizing who they truly are.
Ava M
11/4/2014 08:41:00 am
This quote is quite interesting and clearly has a lot of inquiry behind it. I agree with what he’s saying about a mature man is one who wants to live humbly and how an immature man is one who wants to die nobly. Of course, no one should want to die; but there are those who go out and fight just so they can die as noble heroes. That is immature and selfish. Those who go out to fight should hold onto the hope that they can get out alive, and not expect anything in return. They shouldn’t go out just for the glory, but for a reason. Like those soldiers in WWII went and fought for a purpose. They didn’t fight for glory, but for their own cause. If they had the passion and will to survive, but still live humbly afterwards, then they are mature men.
Zoe O.
11/4/2014 12:07:30 pm
Wilhelm Stekel, a late 1800’s – early 1900’s Austrian psychologist once said “The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one.” This statement means that some people would do something to make themselves look good while others do it for the good of the cause. The definition of humble is showing modesty and lowering a person’s importance, and those who are humble will act for the good of others before themselves. I agree with this quote, and firmly believe that there are “moral” people in the world who want to help others, while sadly, there are some who do things just to make themselves feel better about themselves or for the recognition they would receive. An anecdotal example of this quote would be a fundraiser at my best friend’s church. A few years back, one of my best friend’s church’s youth group held a fundraiser to help raise money for a soup kitchen, and to raise money, the youth of the church was split into groups of two as teams. My friend invited me to join her, so she and I formed one team, and we raised over $200 to benefit the soup kitchen. Another group raised over $400, and that team, who raised the most money out of all the groups, boasted and bragged about how much money they made. They were so proud that they were able to make that much money, and when they gave the money to the kitchen they made sure that the soup kitchen knew who they were and their names. On the other hand, my best friend and I donated the money anonymously and did not tell any other group how much money we had made. By keeping to ourselves, it made the two of us humble and we simply wanted to raise money to help others, not to make ourselves feel good. Another examples would be random acts of kindness. “The mark of an immature man” would be a person who lends a person something or pays for their meal, while continuously saying that they helped someone and that they were so happy to help. “The mark of a mature man” would be someone who either does something secretly or modestly to help another individual. For instance, in the 6th grade I overheard another student saying that they forgot their lunch money at home, and they did not have any food with them to eat. I had a lunch from home and happened to have some extra cash in my backpack, so in between classes I gave five dollars to the teacher who I knew that they had next, and told the teacher to give the money to that specific person. That student never knew that I gave him the money, but was surprised that someone gave him the money when he needed it. To this day, I remember that moment as an act that I did to help someone beside myself, and in turn that action was self-fulfilling. In conclusion, Stekel’s quote provides a delightful stance on the path an immature person takes versus a mature man when it comes to doing something good for a cause or another person.
Julia H.
11/4/2014 01:57:09 pm
Many individuals strive to make an impact on the world. Some try to achieve this in a misguided way, with a shocking sometimes violent impression. While others attain this goal in a quiet, understated manner. These people want to feel as though their life has a purpose and will stop at nothing to make sure they get the devotion they deserve. This includes putting their life on the line. No matter if the attention is negative or positive, a lasting impression should be bestowed upon the targeted audience. One who tries to follow through with this course of action, sadly, is very insecure with themselves, which, in turn, corresponds with immaturity. Islamic terrorists are willing to die and kill others in the name of religion. They do this because they feel that this is a noble, worthy cause that should be fought for. No matter what the task is, they will follow through with it in respect for what they feel is right. Other people feel that this idea of self-sacrifice is not an appropriate path and choose to make an impact without inflicting violence or harm. These men show a mature, responsible persona. There are doctors and nurses that travel to third world countries to help give vaccinations to prevent the spread of disease and just give resources to assist those with poor living conditions. These types of individuals have realized that it’s not about sacrifice, it is being able to give back and help others “behind the scenes” and not trying to catch the public eye. Stekel’s quote is significant and I do believe it is true. There are people who risk it all for the sake of “fame” and there are those who are noble and have a lasting impact without having to die for their cause. The mature man will be most successful in the end by making the thoughtful decision while still doing what is right for the majority, not just for their own gratification.
Rachael T
11/5/2014 02:05:13 pm
I agree that some people are set on getting publicity, regardless of whether it is positive or negative. Some say there's no such thing as bad publicity. Just look at Miley Cyrus; people are always talking and gossiping about her outrageous shows, but never once does somebody ask "who is Miley Cyrus?"
Chris W
11/6/2014 04:25:54 am
This response was very good. I like the point saying that most people try to make an impact, yet dying for a cause would be a misguided way. the point with the Islamic terrorists shows how far people are willing to go for nobility. Again, very good response.
Julia H.
11/4/2014 02:03:27 pm
I thought your response was very insightful. I liked how you used some past world history to back up your stance. Also using Siddhartha in your response gives a specific example of a person who possesses these qualities. Good argument!
Jay V.
11/5/2014 07:54:44 am
Although I agree with Wilhelm Stekel, there are certain situations in which his saying might not be accurate. I agree with Stekel in the fact that someone immature would probably be lured by the prospect of receiving fame and recognition, driven to the point where even his own life is worth less than that legacy. For example, knights in the medieval era would be celebrated for their deaths. They would rather die in a battle than lose the battle, a telltale sign of immaturity. I also think that someone mature would probably lie low, wanting more to further his cause than to become well known, although he would be willing to lay down his life if he has to. People who took in Jews during the Holocaust were perfect examples of this – they knew that living generic lives and being able to blend in with the crowd would be more useful to their cause than dying loudly would. This all pertains to Stekel’s quote. What Stekel doesn't mention is a situation in which an immature man wants to further his own cause by lying low and letting others die in his place. That person’s immaturity would not be in his desire to die for fame but his willingness to live and send others to their deaths. An example of this would be an army general who commands his soldiers to fire but does not fight with them in battles. Also, Stekel fails to acknowledge that a mature person might think that dying nobly for his cause might help further the cause in a way that living wouldn’t – dying not in greed but in dedication to the cause. Though it is a noble death, the man is not immature because he felt as though his own death would be beneficial, like a wake up call, to the cause. A good example of this was Dr. Kevorkian, a doctor that helped people with terminal illnesses complete their voluntary suicide. Though he was living and completing his tasks, no one really knew of him until he decided to broadcast one of these assisted suicides on 60 Minutes. Though it wasn’t a literal death (he would die in prison later), it was the death of his career. However, it furthered his cause more than his humble living ever did; assisted suicide is now legal in Oregon, Washington, Montana, Vermont, and New Mexico.
Kelly M.
11/5/2014 10:37:59 am
This statement is a prime example of how maturity is such a vital factor in so many aspects of everyday life. Wilhem Stekel states, “The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one.” This quote has a meaning that is much deeper than the lines. It states how the immature man is the one who feels that he needs to die in order to make a cause worth it. That, however, is not the case. It is so easy to be able to live in a humble way for a cause. An example of this can be something as simple as the different outlooks that minorities had during the equal rights movements of the 1970s. Martin Luther King Jr., for example, took the mature and logical approach to obtaining equality. He chose to protest in a peaceful manner instead of being violent. Unlike his fellow civil rights activist, Malcolm X decided to take a different approach. Malcolm X was a much more hostile person in the way he chose to see things and the mannerisms in which he demonstrated his views. Not to say that Malcolm X was not mature, but compared to MLK, he wasn’t as rational in his reasoning for being so violent. The quote by Stekel is very clear about how he believes people should think and act. Another quote by one of the best German writers of his era, Fyodor Dostoevsky, states, “The mystery of human existence lies not in just staying alive, but in finding something to live for.” That “something” that is referred to, should always be humbling and worth the time.
Jeet R.
11/6/2014 07:34:14 am
A very insightful and well articulated response Kelly. Your reference to Malcom X is quite eye opening and very historically correct. Well done.
Marisa B
11/6/2014 07:48:18 am
Malcom X is a great example of an immature man and Martin Luther King was also a great example of a mature man! This is an awesome answer!
Kelly W
11/6/2014 12:34:38 pm
I agree with what you said here about Martin Luther King Jr., but especially about Malcom X. I for one would have never thought of using him as an example. This really puts things into a perspective some may not notice. Great job!
Thomas Westgate
11/5/2014 12:10:10 pm
I agree and disagree with this statement. The men who wish to die for a cause simply so they will be remembered and revered, and not in actuality for the cause itself, are immature. During the Crusades, wealthy nobles would charge into battle without commands in an effort to gain respect and honor. They cared less about the outcome of the battle, and more about their image. This would usually end in the knights getting killed very easily since they did not have the support of an entire army. This is an example of people being immature and wishing to die for a noble cause. It would benefit the cause more if they attacked in unison, but the knights ignored this and charged for their own prestige. However, there are also causes that men should be willing to die for. The key point is the word willing. Wishing to die for a cause is immature, while accepting the possibility of death while not desiring it is bravery. Examples are the saints who were condemned for their faith and any scenario where one dies defending those who cannot fight for themselves.
Nolan Mazako
11/6/2014 07:28:36 am
I agree with you. An immature man does only wish for "Eternal Glory." I also think that you used very good examples.
Patrick M
11/6/2014 11:47:19 am
Thomas,
Erin Satkowski
11/5/2014 12:34:19 pm
I think this quote means that the immature man is known of wanting to die nobly because someone immature is sometimes considered unrealistic or crazy. These are usually the people who want to die nobly for other. For example, someone actually wanting to go into the military may seem incredulous as they are setting themselves up for disaster and are in dangerous situations 24/7. However, they are the ones who end up making a true difference in the world by dying nobly so that others may live. This quote is saying that a mature man is known of wanting to live humbly for someone. A mature man is often realistic and thoughtful. They are the ones who think of doing something "realistically" to improve the lives of others such as becoming a doctor. They are seen as the underdog or superman that saves lives while still remaining humble. They are seen as the ideal man that one should strive for. I do not agree with Stekel on this perspective. His perspective does not define any occupation or man. I don't think maturity has anything to do with what a man wants to do with his life. It may even be the opposite. In today's world, anyone who enrolls in the military is someone regarded of the up most respect where this author may regard them as immature for wanting to die for others. A mature man, someone who thinks realistically, may do little for the good of the people. For example, a mature man may want to become a lawyer. In the big picture, a lawyer does little for the people. Therefore, I don't think Stekel's perspective holds any sort of truth in today's world.
Justin
11/6/2014 10:37:42 am
Erin, good analogy with soldiers - especially with Veteran's Day coming up. The men and women of the military are true examples of dying nobly for a cause, however, they should not be considered immature. It is a definite example of an instance where Stekel's quote may not be accurate.
Ashley L
11/5/2014 12:35:11 pm
In this quote, Stekel compares the immature man to a mature man and how they would go about their actions. He is saying that an immature man would gallantly die for a cause, and a mature man would live humbly for it. I agree with his evaluation of the two types of men to a certain point. Although giving up your life is definitely not an immature action, there are more powerful ways to make your mark. Every life is valuable, so why die when you can do so much more to help? The word "immature" in this situation can be considered harsh, but for the comparison, it is appropriate. Children, or people who are considered immature, act on impulse. they don't think about the future or consequences like a mature adult would. Dying nobly for a cause, as an immature man would do, definitely makes a statement. The fact that he is willing to give the greatest gift he can ever have is tragic. But because it is his greatest gift, he should use it wisely. Devoting your life to a cause and living humbly can make an immeasurable difference in what you want to change. There are exceptions, however, that should be acknowledged. Men who fight in war and give their life for their country or beliefs are not immature, they are brave. Sometimes the only thing you can do is fight. As sad as it is to say, violence is used to solve various conflicts around the world. In some instances, a death sparks many people to come together. In 2011, a Tunisian street vendor, Mohamed Bouazizi, was harassed and humiliated by police officers, who then confiscated his cart. As a response, he set himself on fire in front of a government building. It can be seen as an extreme reaction from Bouazizi, but his sacrifice ignited a flame in other Tunisians, in which they revolted against the government and its policies. This led to the outbreak in revolutions across the Arab world, known as the Arab Spring. His extravagant death helped inspire people to fight against what they were afraid of.
Rachael T
11/5/2014 02:00:18 pm
I agree with Wilhelm Stekel in the fact that some people work for the same cause, but go about it in different ways. He is saying that an immature man wants his actions to be known and admired, and he wants to be seen as influential figure. However, others would rather work “behind the scenes,” and are not interested in any of the publicity that comes with it. Last year around Christmas time, burglars broke into a house and stole practically every Christmas present from an unsuspecting family. The news reached the public, and immediately people tried to help out. The family received several checks to replace the lost gifts, but most remained anonymous. These nameless, generous people did not care about getting recognition for their kind acts; all they cared about was that this unfortunate family had an unforgettable Christmas. There are others that probably would not have hesitated to throw out their name, hoping to get some air time on the news or find themselves in a newspaper article. These immature people forget that you shouldn’t help people out only if you are looking to get something out of it as well.
Sydney T.
11/6/2014 10:39:42 am
Rachael, I agree with you. I also liked how you brought in the example about the burglars around Christmas last year. Good job on your response :)
Mary Palys
11/6/2014 11:18:52 am
Sorry Rachel but I have to disagree with you. You looked at the donators point of view but what about the burglars' and the family's? Do you know how the story reached the news? Maybe the family saw what happened to them and wanted pity or some kind or recognition. Maybe the burglars wanted everyone to make a fuss so they would get their moment to shine on the news. While some people may seem to be okay with the fact that they are not recognized others want to see their name on a billboard surrounded by lights and they won't stop until they get there.
Kelly W
11/6/2014 12:35:57 am
This particular quote can be interpreted in a number of different ways. I, personally, don't agree with this opinion. Stekel says that only immature men die for a cause, yet mature men want to live for one. This is not exactly true, especially when it comes to war. Many people who agree with this quote seem to forget that the men fighting for our country every day are risking their lives for our freedom. They did not go to fight for us because they are immature and just wanted people to remember them. These men are mature and know that when they leave home, they are leaving their families, their homes, their state, their friends... they leave everything. They know that there is a good possibility they might not make it back home because they will be killed in the line of duty, but they go anyways because they love America and want to protect the people. Even police officers will put their lives on the line to save anyone in danger. When men die, yes, sometimes it is because they want people to remember them and they are doing it just for that reason. Mature men aren't always trying to live for a cause; sometimes they die too and know that they are going to die, but they don't do it to be remember. They do it for a reason, and it's not for popularity or for attention.
Ethan LaFrance
11/6/2014 01:08:11 am
I both agree and disagree with Wilhelm Stekel on this statement. I agree that an immature man wants to die nobly for a cause, but I also believe that a mature one would live for himself, instead of humbly for any specific cause. People who are psychologically immature often depend on the opinions of others to construct the identity they view as their own. They wish to die in a way that would leave behind and solidify this identity that they so desperately cling to as their only sense of self. A more mature man would rather live, for he sees that you only get one chance at life, and wasting it on others is just that, a waste. The mature man would live his life to its full potential, in whatever way he saw fit. He realizes that when we die, it really doesn't matter what kind of legacy we leave behind because we lose all agency in the world, and our existence is completely nullified, as if we were never there at all. Stekel remains true to conformist Judeo-Christian values by wishing to live humbly, but in reality the only gods that exist are ideas. Clinging to ideas that subvert you and turn you into a servant of the people is a waste of the short time we have in the physical world. I believe that Stekel's criticism of the immature man is correct, but his description of the developed man is heavily flawed.
Jacob E
11/6/2014 03:03:03 am
Stekel is right on with his reasoning. While many people respect those who die for a cause, and rightly so, aren't they at more benefit to the cause alive? Dying for a cause is noble, but also nearsighted. It is very unlikely that someone is going to be 100% successful in proving there point by dying for it, and I believe that working toward the cause makes more sense. Martin Luther King slowly ended racial inequality by working humbly to the cause. He did not die for the cause, and his steady, nonviolent, death-free approach eventually succeeded. On the other hand, Japanese kamikaze pilots believed that they would save their country by killing themselves. Long story short, they lost World War 2. People are of more use when they are alive; that's just a fact. It's like asking, 'Who's a better baseball player: Babe Ruth or Shin-Soo Choo? Choo is alive, Ruth isn't, Choo wins. It's that simple
Wade G
11/6/2014 11:49:23 am
I agree with you on this one Jacob. True world-changings events do not happen in one day. They are built up to for years and years and are then finally released to the public. Martin Luther King worked to end discrimination with peaceful protests for years of blood, sweat, and tears. Then he was nobly killed. If his life was ended earlier than that, if he had thrown himself into harms way, we would not even know the name Martin Luther.
Chris W
11/6/2014 04:23:15 am
When the Spartans would go off to battle, their wives would say :You either come home bearing your shield, or wearing it." This meant that they either come home a noble man, or die nobly in battle. In ancient societies like this, life was valued very little. People felt that if they died for a cause, they would be noble. If feel that Stekel's quote is true. In a society like today's, life is valued very high. Men want to be alive and help society as opposed to go and die for a nobility title. Most people nowadays are set on making this country better as it is in a very sticky situation. Poverty an unemployment rates are at an all time high. People are often donating their time at soup kitchens and charity organizations to help others in need. this shows maturity in the sense that they will make a large impact helping the country rather than fighting for it. However, there are also people who join the army to escape the country and fight in the Middle East. These people are not opposed to the idea of being killed in battle for their country. This would be immature in the sense that their death would only make others upset and it would not make an impact on the well being for the country. A noble man will stay and help his cause, and a immature man will die for it.
Nolan Mazako
11/6/2014 07:23:56 am
I agree and disagree with this quote. Wilhelm Stekel made a good point in saying how an immature man wishes to die nobly for a cause. He wishes only in the thought of fame and glory, wanting to be remembered as a noble man. An immature man will often rush blindly into battle as well. In other words, he will wish to be thought of as the hero where there is in fact no true need for one. This then leads to what a mature man is, who, by Stekel’s interpretation, wants to live humbly for a cause. In this case, I disagree. Watching others die on the battlefield while you continue on is not humble; rather, it is the mark of a coward. I believe that a mature man is one who will only act when necessary. In other words, he will wait until the need for a hero arises. There is a reason that in many action/adventure movies the hero only conquers his enemy at the end, when the time is right. He may attempt it in the beginning, but that is immature. In conclusion, I believe that an immature man is a person who will rush into battle seeking only “Eternal Fame and Glory,” rather than doing it nobly. He may want to be noble, but can only achieve it if he is not immature. A mature man is one who will not act cowardly, but one who will wait for the moment when a hero is actually needed.
Jeet R.
11/6/2014 07:29:36 am
Wilhelm Stekle believes that immature men will die for a cause while noble men will live humbly for one. In fact, this is quite an accurate observation. For example, men like Gandhi chose to live in poverty with very little food to fight for what they believed in. Another example is Mother Theresa. She lived the extremely modest life of a nun while helping support children in need in India. A person who proves the other end of the spectrum to be true is Adolf Hitler. He took his own life in the name of the Nazi cause rather than face his punishment. Most of the great people in history have lived modestly at one point in their lives. This proves Stekel's observation to be true.
Laura W.
11/6/2014 07:29:52 am
This quote brings another one to mind- tell a 20 year old man to go to war and he'll say "Where?" A thirty year old man would say "How?" A forty year old man would say "Why?" Perhaps this is true, but Stekel's perspective isn't necessarily correct. If everyone lived quietly for a cause, no one would ever get anything done. Sometimes we need the extremes to get the message out there, to let the public know. As soon as the extremes have made their point, the mugwumps and the humble men can quietly change the world. But if every mature person lived like this nothing would change.
Mrs. E
11/6/2014 10:36:26 am
Insightful response, Laura.
Marisa B
11/6/2014 07:47:02 am
Wilhelm Stekel once said, "the mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." I agree with Stekel's quote that relates to being humble. The approach people take to making a difference in the world is what deciphers if they are a true hero or not. One who dies nobly for a cause is one who wants the attention and recognition of what he did through making it known to everyone. One who dies nobly for another is a humble person who is mature in the sense that he truly wanted to help the person, rather than do it for recognition which is immature. The definition of a humble person is one who shows modesty for another. A person that is dying for one is considered to be mature because he is giving his life for another person, which is a benevolent act. A person that is dying for a cause to either gain recognition or legacy, is immature. I agree with this quote in the sense that one must be humble in order to be successful. A mature man is one who shows modesty towards others by doing things that do not involve making yourself feel good. An immature man is one who does things nobly for a cause to gain recognition. For example, if one rescues an old lady on the street from being robbed and takes a humble approach to this heroic act, he is considered a mature man. If instead he decided to brag to everyone about it and make an immense amount of attention fall on him, this would be an example of an immature man.
Hailey H
11/6/2014 08:24:16 am
I firmly agree with the statement. This remark to me as seen as a way that most people live their lives today. Many spend the day doing actions that we will only benefit them or give them more attention. It has become a rare sight to see a citizen, out of the kindness of their heart, go through with an action that is in favor of another person. These rare occasions are what inspire many. An example of this can be seen in the life of Bob Marley. He spent his day producing music that he felt the public would like and could make their life better or more relaxing. When he was admitted into a hospital his first thought on his mind was how his fans would react. This shows that he was more worried about his followers than his own health. This proves that he was a very mature man since he did not care about the amount of money he made while performing his concerts, but instead the emotions of the people he loved most. In the quote it says, "The mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." This is saying that instead of working on himself for fame, Bob Marley chose the life of working for others to make a difference. However, the other half of the quote says, "The mark of an immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause." This half of the comment reflects the fact that many people preform actions in the favor of their own benefit. They do not care about the feelings of others or the idea of making a difference as a whole. Instead, they are hung up on the belief that they can make a difference on their own and they need to be known for an action they did. A scenario when this happens can be seen in the story "The Boy Who Cried Wolf." Within the story a young boy is a shepherd who spends his days watching the sheep and protecting them from the wolves. However, he becomes bored with his life and decides to create drama by telling the villagers that he keeps seeing wolves and fighting them off. Soon enough the towns people become fed up with him because they realize he has been lying the entire time. This young boy is seen as very immature because all he cared about was trying to look tough in front of everyone. He had the belief that people did not pay attention to him, when in reality many respected him for his work. He was just caught up on trying to save the day and be known as a noble being. It would have been much more mature of him to just tell the truth and live a humble life.
Manny A
11/6/2014 08:34:18 am
Although I agree with this quote, there are some circumstances when mature men can die for a noble cause. For instance, soldiers who fight in wars are extremely noble, however they know what they are getting themselves into when they signed up for the army. They know that there is a good chance that they might die, but they would do it for what they believe is right, which is very brave and mature. Immature men would be the knights during the Middle Ages who gave their lives to the kings they were protecting just so that they can be remembered as noble beings. They only care about leaving a legacy in the world when they pass on so they can be remembered. Immature men can also include the terrorists that give up their lives to prove a point or frighten others into getting what they want. This is not brave nor noble due to the fact that they are hurting innocent people in the process. Mature men would live a very humble life, like people who study martial arts. They are taught not to use what they learned to hurt anyone in the real world and not to brag about it; they are to remain very humble so others do not provoke them to the point where they have to use there skills. Mature men would always be known for their tremendous amount of nobility and bravery, while still remaining humble. Immature men would always be known as people who only care about the legacy they leave when they pass on.
Briannaa Y
11/6/2014 09:14:11 am
A person is childish to believe that in order to live a successful and meaningful life, he/she should die for a greater cause. It is who that lives a life without showing to much modesty for his/her being that is mature. It is true that too many people are obsessed with wanting to be something great. It is only natural to have this outlook on life, but most need to realize that even though they won't necessary become famous, or achieve a grand accomplishment that inspires others, doesn't mean they do not live a great life. In the book, The Fault in Our Stars, one of the main characters, Augustus Waters, was engrossed in the concept of being renowned so he could easily avoid oblivion. He didn't want to face death without having thousands of people loving his name. It might sound selfish, but he couldn't get this idea out of his head. His girlfriend, Hazel Grace Lancaster, would yell at him for acting so childish. It didn't matter if he got famous or not in his life, because Augustus made a big impact on Hazel. Hazel would explain how frustrating it is to hear him say these beliefs because even though she isn't the world, he is hers. It hurts that Augustus didn't believe he would live a successful life because he did. He improved Hazel's. He showed her how to really live and be humble instead of being locked away in her room all the time. Hazel constantly tried to show him that it wasn't always about the fans to live a great life. These two characters exemplify the delicate balance of how to live a good life and how you don't always need a greater cause in your honor.
Christopher C.
11/6/2014 09:22:12 am
Wilhelm Stekel once said, "The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one." I agree with Stekel when he refers to how certain ways of thinking can affect maturity. Stekel is trying to make the point that an immature person would believe that the best way to make a point or to be known, is to die for it. Next Stekel says that a mature person would realize it would not make sense to die for a cause, because doing humble deeds more than once helps you become known in a more effective way. By living humbly for a cause you can promote it and see how it affects people. For example if someone's cause is to be nice to others it would make more sense to help lots of people over time and build a strong, lasting reputation. If a person wants to die nobly for a cause they won't be building a lasting reputation. In the end a good, lasting reputation is what I believe makes someone nobel and mature.
Justin O.
11/6/2014 10:18:51 am
Willhelm Stekel’s quote, “The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one.”, is very significant in the world today. I agree with Stekel’s comments. The quote calls attention to the motives of individuals. There are people that are passionate about helping others and making the world a better place. These people don’t need recognition or fame. Their reward is the positive impact they have had on a particular person or society. I would call their motives pure. A great example is Pope Francis. He is so passionate about helping those less fortunate and bringing people closer to God. He even bought a used car to drive around in – instead of the chauffeured vehicles of his predecessors. In contrast, there are others that do good for the attention and glory. Their motives are not pure, but selfish. They help others in order to make themselves look good. However, putting this all into perspective, at the end day, the most important thing is people helping people no matter what their motives are.
Tom Davis
11/6/2014 10:31:22 am
I completely disagree with this quote. Being willing to die for a cause is the mark of a very humble mature man. Think about war, and all the men and women who have died to keep our country free. That is a very noble cause. To me, because they were willing to die in order to protect their country and loved ones, makes them more humble and mature than someone who hides and refuses stand up to defend what they believe in. However, if a person wants to die and be remembered nobly for what they did, that is being a martyr, and is immature. For the most part I disagree That the mark of a mature man is one who wants to live humbly for a noble cause. I believe that people should try to make the most out of their lives and not try to keep their heads down. Take Lou Gehrig for example. He came from humble roots, he had no money growing up, and yet he was able to get good grades, send himself to college, and play professional baseball for the Yankees. When he was diagnosed with ALS, he could have been a martyr and made a big deal about it, but instead he acted mature and didn't ask for people's sympathy, but rather assured them that he wasn't going to make a big deal about it. That is a mature man who lived humbly, but made something out of his life.
Sydney T.
11/6/2014 10:36:31 am
Many people, in present time, believe that if they don't die remembered then everything they have ever done is a waste. Within Stekel's quote, he states this. I qualify with his quote though because it is not only immature men that want to die nobly and be remembered, mature men do to. I believe that everyone wants to be remembered for something whether it be an accomplishment or an action. It is not only immature men that want to be remembered and to die for something important. I think many people find it hard to grasp the concept of actually dying and not knowing what comes after it, so they want or like the idea of dying for something important that they can actually be remembered for. While in Stekel's quote it is true what he days about men in general and how they want to live a noble life and die the same way,I do not think it is true for what he says about mature men. Not all mature men live humbly for one person or one thing and men can not be grouped in to 2 categories like so. Everyday, people are humble whether they are mature or not, and doing something like giving money to a homeless person does not decipher whether they are immature or mature or whether they want to be remembered before they die.
Heather H.
11/6/2014 10:54:30 am
Stekel’s quote is true in many, but not all, situations. It is a clear sign of maturity when a man wants to stay humble for his cause. He wants to live through the experience, but he does not specifically need to be known for what he is doing. This shows that he wants others to benefit from his actions without them feeling the need to honor him. The sheer satisfaction of knowing he did something to help others is enough to make him feel complete. However, it is not necessarily immature to want to die for a cause. Any soldier who loses his or her life while in battle is immature by no means. A soldier wants to help people in ways that are often different than what people consider normal. They join the military knowing and acknowledging the possible risks, and not being afraid of the unknown. They sacrifice to feel helpful, whereas other types of people would prefer to watch shyly as their actions help others. A man’s desires to be remembered or remain anonymous cannot be marked as mature or immature based solely on how they want to reach these goals, but rather on what the goals are and his mindset throughout the experience.
Connie C
11/6/2014 10:57:49 am
I agree with Wilhelm Stekel’s statement because he brought a good point when he said that “the mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause.” This part of the quote is implying that a man who is still young and inexperienced would do anything to take the easy way out of problematic situations as well as making him be noticed by others. By “dying nobly for a cause,” a person not only becomes famous, but he also leaves this world behind. Unlike a mature person, an immature person takes the quickest route to his goal like dying…or as he would call it, “sacrificing.” In reality, he is really running away from his problems. When face with a major problem, the best strategy is to retreat, and fight and win on another day; that is what a mature person would do. In the quote, Stekel said, “the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one.” I agree with this part too because the person is living on for something else instead of dying. Dying is easy to do; there is thousands of way to die. However, living is hard. It takes courage to wake up every day and do new things. If a person continues to live, he will eventually benefit others even if they just meet once.
Stephanie B
11/6/2014 11:09:25 am
A immature man is martyr. A martyr is a person who would die for a cause in order to make a mark on history. While a mature would live out his life not trying to die. He would contribute to the cause. Helping thought his life while the immature man would die for seemingly selfish reasons. There is some confusion between the two as if giving one's life means one is greater than another who devotes one's life to a cause. It is humbling to be able to devote tour self to something.
Stephanie B
11/6/2014 11:11:51 am
Laura,
Mary Palys
11/6/2014 11:12:01 am
When I first read this quote, or when Mrs. Elbakry read the quote, to be more precise, I had no clue what it was trying to say. I associate the words immature and mature with childish behavior. However, in this case, I had to look past my personal definition to see that these words can be used to describe most states of mind. What Stekel is trying to say is that people who die for the sake of dying do not value their lives and are considered immature but men that do take life and its possibilities into consideration are mature. Stekel uses immature and mature as adjectives to describe how developed a man's concept of life is. But no matter how inspirational Stekel's words are, they are not correct. In the Avengers movie Bruce Banner, also known as the Hulk, hid away and lived humbly being a doctor because he could not get sick. But he did not value his life. He thought that he was a monster and even tried to kill himself. He was mature but did not want "to live humbly for one." On the other hand, anyone can say that Tony Stark, aka Iron Man, is immature. However, at the end of the movie he tries to sacrifice himself for the greater good. He saw that there was no other way so he drove a missile into a space portal to safe the people of Manhattan. He may have died but he knew the value of life. He tried to call the only thing he really cares about, aka Pepper Potts, before his upcoming departure.
Patrick M
11/6/2014 11:40:46 am
I disagree with Wilhelm Stekel’s notion of dying nobly for a cause being immature and living humbly being mature. First of all, what Stekel means when saying this quote is that dying “nobly,” or to be remembered, is much less meaningful and significant than doing things humbly and without seeking fame. Sure, this could be true at face value. For example, say a firefighter were to die during the daring rescue of people trapped in a burning building. His death would most likely be mourned by his entire community, and his name and story would be remembered for countless future generations. This noble death would seem like a selfish act to Stekel; perhaps the firefighter wanted this kind of fame and recognition, and simply allowed himself to die for that reason. However, even if the firefighter intended to become a famous figure, this fame could lead to several positive outcomes. More regulations could be placed on building construction and fire fighting to help save lives down the road. Also, the story of this firefighter could potentially inspire more people to devote themselves to helping others, like this man knowingly risked his life to do. The legacies of those who die noble deaths would far outweigh their silent, humble contributions to society, as humble actions only have short-term and relatively insignificant effects.
Wade G
11/6/2014 11:45:31 am
I do agree with Stekel's quote. A man is foolish for wanting to end his life early, this usually only temporarily benefits the cause and is soon forgotten. The real heroes are men and women that work hard their whole life to prove their cause is truly noble. Only few will be remembered for going out in a short-lived blaze of glory. Almost every historical breakthrough has been fought for years with hard work and dedication. Most wars, medical breakthroughs, and literature have taken the leaders' whole life to thoroughly complete. To put it simply "Rome was not built in a day.". Monumental buildings are not completed in a day, no truly spectacular painting or mural is made in a day, wars are not won in a day. Changing the world takes time and is a long tedious process. But, it pays off in the end when you see the true brilliance you have left behind you for the world to admire even while you are gone.
Kayla A
11/6/2014 11:45:50 am
I agree with the statement. An immature man wants to die for a cause and be known for it. He does not think about what he is doing, he only does it for the fame and being noticed. A mature man would do the opposite. A mature man would carefully look at what is going on around him. He would ask himself if it is worth it to die for such a cause. A mature man would consider the consequences that his actions will put him in. He would look for a good reason to risk his life, not just to gain some fame and be well known for his actions.
Andy S
11/6/2014 11:49:04 am
I do agree with this quote. Dying for a cause does not make you mature. Maturity is behaving responsibly throughout life, and not only caring only about yourself. Children, look inwards, caring about no one but themselves. As you get older, you begin to look outward, caring not only about yourself, but others as well. Dying nobly is selfish. One would die nobly to achieve fame or honor, something that benefits no one but the person dying. Living humbly benefits everyone, making your presence more pleasant to others. Because it helps make you look better and affects others in a positive way also, it can be deemed mature. Your comment will be posted after it is approved.
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May 2015
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